December 16, 2014

Why Don't Black People Just Do What the Police Say?


A common response I hear to the different incidents of police killings of unarmed citizens due to excessive force, mostly from white people and from some blacks occasionally, is basically along the lines of "why didn't they just do what the police told them to do?....why didn't they comply?.... "why don't blacks respect police authority?"

So, to this point about compliance, watch the video for the context of what I'm saying. The police in Cleveland shot 12 year old Tamir Rice who had a toy gun within 2 seconds of arriving on the scene. Their vehicle did not even come to a full stop. John Crawford in Dayton was basically shot on sight in Walmart, again with a toy gun, in an open carry state. Those two and Garner in NY, who was also unarmed and who had NOT committed any crime at the time NYPD attempted to arrest him, were not given a fraction of the deference the armed and openly defiant white man in this video was given. Look at the number of officers on the scene. Listen to how much compassion and empathy they show this man.

No compliance. Armed. Openly defiant. Yet shown so much deference. You don't even have to ask what would happen if he were a black male behaving this way because we already know what happens to UNARMED black males who are even mildly non-compliant (Garner). Police would have responded with lethal force. So the operative issue in these situations is not about compliance with police authority.

Police can and do exercise their discretionary authority differently for white people and black people. A black child with a toy gun in Cleveland is shot dead in 2 seconds, while this armed non-compliant white male is cajoled, coddled and catered to in an effort not to harm him. Blacks in encounters with police rarely if ever receive such deference. You can find a variety of videos like this online that demonstrate how differently this issue of "compliance" with police authority is dealt with for blacks. His life seemed to matter to the cops. Too often it appears that ours do not. So I think the issue of compliance is merely a distraction from the real issue at hand, namely the arbitrary and racially discriminatory fashion in which police exercise their authority and discretion to act or not to act with escalating levels of force against people of color.

In other words, it is the wrong approach to define black noncompliance as the problem in these cases when this video clearly demonstrates the wide array of effective responses available to police to deal with a person who is ACTUALLY armed and dangerous. The problem is that when it comes to people of color, police far too often bypass such responses and jump right to the use of force to compel compliance, typically leaping over readily available intermediate steps in the continuum of force in the process.

12 year old Tamir Rice came to the attention of police in exactly the way this man did, a citizen called it in. He would be alive today if he had been handled as this man was.

"Why didn't they just do what the police told them to do?....why didn't they comply?.... "why don't blacks respect police authority?"

Respect is continually earned and can be easily lost. When black people repeatedly observe police engage in excessive use of force or otherwise exercise heavy handed tactics and poor professional judgement in our communities, police erode respect for their authority. Beyond that, when blacks easily observe wide vast differences in the exercise of police discretion to use or not use force to obtain compliance, differences that are clearly based on the race of the citizen involved, police degrade their authority.

Furthermore, when Blacks repeatedly see these behaviors result in catastrophic consequences to citizens in death, injury or other egregious harms for which their should be accountability and police mislead, mischaracterize, outright fabricate or lie about their actions, all while relying on the societal presumption of their veracity, to avoid accountability, police erode respect for their authority. 

When police departments and court systems tell the community that while its really too bad about what happened to your family member or loved one that was caused by police actions, its really not our fault, its not anyone's fault and no one will be held accountable, respect for police authority is lost.
Long story short: blacks have little reason to respect the authority of police if police are themselves not subject to any authority or accountability no matter how egregious or destructive their behavior is.

Comments (29)

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francislholland's avatar

francislholland · 536 weeks ago

If this white man were Black, there would have been no discussion whatever of open carry rights, because "everyone knows" that Blacks have no right to carry guns under any circumstances.

Although this isn't formally the law, this understanding is enforced by police under the rubric of "reasonably fears for his safety or that of the public", where police reasonably fear Blacks are armed and reasonably fear armed Blacks, more than they fear whites, even when there is no objective reason to believe we are armed at all.

"Reasonable fear" obscures many other de facto doctrines, such as the belief that Blacks should obey whites without debate or delay, which goes all the way back to slavery.

The legacy of the Dred Scott decision, which was a judicial statement of a dominant societal understanding, is evident in the way police treat Blacks. 'Blacks have no rights that a white man is bound to respect,' including the rights to life and liberty.

Police, by their behavior, are constantly reading Blacks out Dred Scott rights.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
Manhattan's avatar

Manhattan · 534 weeks ago

It's nice to see you post again indypo. The police don't get respect because they don't respect the citizens.
PBracilli's avatar

PBracilli · 513 weeks ago

Perhaps the black community needs to put itself in an officer's shoes for a second. If almost all of the arrests you made were blacks breaking laws, you would probably start profiling them as well. They don't profile blacks for no reason. Statistics show that blacks are responsible for the majority of crimes. It doesn't matter that some of the guns might be toy guns. Cops don't know that. They see a black guy with a gun. Period. They are not superhumans who can detect if the gun is real or not. They see a gun being held by "another black perp". I have been arrested. I complied, was respectful and was relatively treated with respect. What don't blacks understand about that? You can't just resist arrest because you feel you didn't do anything wrong. The pregnant woman who was just manhandled by police resisted arrest. That's NOT acceptable. I don't feel the least bit sorry for her.
4 replies · active 405 weeks ago
Why would you use a case where the opportunity to comply doesn't exist? That makes little sense and doesn't serve your argument in the least.

To make your case that compliance is not an issue, you need to demonstrate that in a statistically significant portion of black interactions with police where Blacks comply, they are harmed anyway. Since such is not the case, in fact the opposite is, teaching compliance irrespective of respect for police, would be akin to survival training.

Or are you saying Blacks cannot be taught self control and how to comply? I hope not.
1 reply · active 502 weeks ago
willamettevalley's avatar

willamettevalley · 487 weeks ago

I've seen a similar open carry situation with a young black male where the police were a litte more aggressive in that they were screaming for the man to set the gun down and get down on the ground while pointing their own guns at him, but he complied and was not hurt at all. The Tamir Rice case was much different in that he was walking around pointing the toy gun at people. In this case, the old white guy was not pointing his rifle at anyone. If he had lowered his gun and pointed it at anyone, I'm sure he would have received the same fate as Rice.

Yes, there are some bad shooting incidents. I can think of 3 from the past few years. In one the black man was not killed but clearly should not have been shot. There's the South Carolina case where the black man running away from the cop was shot in the back. Clearly the cop should be tried and convicted for murder in that case. And then there is the case in Chicago, where the young black man with a knife was shot while he was actually veering away from police with his walk. The rest of the cases that I am aware of are either not clear cut or I believe the police were justified in their use of force.

The common denominator in almost every case where a black person is shot by the police is complete lack of compliance (even in cases where I believe use of lethal force was not justified). In almost all cases, if the black person had a little more respect or at least complied with the police, they'd be alive today. For you to not encourage black people to comply with the police, and to continue to sow distrust of the police, makes you part of the problem rather than the solution.

Yes, whites commit the majority of total crime, but as I'm sure you know, blacks are 13% of the population and commit over 50% of the murders in the U.S. Police are justifiably more edgy when dealing with young black males that may be a threat, especially in high crime areas. If you were a cop in a high crime area, you'd be just as edgy.

Police also kill more whites every year (approx. 400) than blacks (approx. 300). Studies have been done which show 95+% of police shootings are justified. To say blacks are "routinely" gunned down by cops for no reason is simply not true. Yes, there are individual bad cases, but it is not an epidemic. FBI statistics for the last few years available are actually lower than the last 20 year average. So at the least it is not an increasing problem, but rather something that media has focused more upon in the past few years.
1 reply · active 454 weeks ago
H Watkins's avatar

H Watkins · 454 weeks ago

Why does no one say black lives matter when black on black murders happen way more often than officer involved shootings? Know one seems to see the big problem but only focus on the small stuff because it gets publicity
4 replies · active 340 weeks ago
Views appear to be one-sided

more on blacks on blackplanet
look ,,blacks ,whites ,asian etc,, are all in some way prejudiced ,some deeper,i had a black girlfriend and i cant even count the number of times we were harassed and threatened even by lack guys,black women stared 1 even spit in front of us,its all a mess ,it has been thru history that these creepy ideas were laid on our children,it aint gonna change overnight !! over a year ,,it has to taught right from day 1 that we are equal and taught in a way that the kids just see hate as what it is ,that hate includes alot of other matters as well,,in justice is everywhere !!!your asking a society here or there to find some kind whole 1 answer to this?? huh?? each person is his or hers own answer to this! you choose your actions and you then will be judged,rioting? yelling? beating,shooting etc,,oh ya thats the way ! again you want someone else to fix the problem!! FIX IT YOURSELF !!! SHEZZZZZZZZZZZ ,,,,
Stupid article with not much sense...one thing, 12 year olds can't open carry..thank you.
I'm not saying there are not issues with some officers. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist. I'm not blind. But I do have one issue with what you said. Yes, respect does have to be earned. However, you show some people respect, even if you don't respect them, because we live in a society. I had zero respect for my former boss. But guess what? She didn't have to "earn my respect" for me to comply and do what she told me. Same goes with officers. When an officer tells you to do something? Do it. Period. It shows respect for your own longevity.
Excellent points. But some facts you left out. The policeman that shot the 12 year old in Cleveland was black and had been fired from other police departments because he did not have the temperament to be cop. John Crawford was not carrying a toy gun in Walmart, he had a pellet gun which doesn't have an orange tip (still the cops fired in haste). Garner was selling illegal cigarettes and was not cooperating with cops.
And why are the cops so hostile? In urban areas where 70% of the blacks there have arrest records, are on drugs, shoot cops, victimize other blacks....it's not fair, but the cops are conditioned not to trust, to expect the worst when encountering a black -- even by black cops.
And your logic if flawed. Nearly all, but not all, cop shootings involved a black citizen defying a police order....not puting hands up, going fro something in their pocket when they're told not to move...not puting their hands behind their back, etc..
mike jones's avatar

mike jones · 444 weeks ago

This article doesn't do a good job of making an argument for the title in which it is written. Pointing to what happened to one white person in a youtube video and then making a generalized argument that is the way all white people are treated by police is faulty and inaccurate. I could go on and on about why this article is poorly written but it would take far to long to explain to the author how to write a more compelling argument.
I too am looking for points of view and understanding. I am a white woman who has had quite a few frightening things happen to me, one of which was being held in a revolving door and robbed by a group of young black men in Chicago. Initially, I felt threatened for weeks afterward but realized that wasn't the norm, but the exception. I have to add that within minutes, police were on the scene and I was impressed with their skills and ability to see things I clearly had no vision to see. I have endured break-ins, a sexual assault, physical abuse and again had to realize these are not the norm and that all men aren't abusive, rapists and robbers. I again have to add that police response was immediate and I was under protection/surveillance for three months after one horrible crime. I have a great respect for police as I needed help, With this perspective about men, I believe I could be jaded and distrustful. But, I saw that NOT ALL MEN are those bad men. Statistically, the majority are decent, kind, respectful men. My question...can this concept be applied to police? Statistically, the majority do their job, save us from untold horrors and that the bad ones need to be understood as just that and weeded out? Or is there no room for this correlation? I understand I am not black, but I have some very difficult experiences. Discussion?
Somewhere in the Bible it says "thou shalt not kill". All killings are unjustified no matter the circumstances.
Do you research more accurately Mr. Laramore, had you done that you'd know about other cases where white men with fake gun were killed by police just as fast as Rice was.
You are the reason why this nation is a war with itself. Instigating hatred with lies.
Shame on you.
Tom Crawford's avatar

Tom Crawford · 357 weeks ago

I'm a retired police officer who happens to be white. I also happen to have a mixed-race son who is the same age as Tamir Rice, and I was deeply saddened by his death. But his situation and the one depicted in the attached video are drastically different from the police perspective, and at least in my experience, not related to race.

A large portion of how police respond to situations has much to do, for better or for worse, with how they are reported to 911. If one listens to the dispatch record in the Rice case, multiple citizens make calls that the young man is "pointing a gun at people", a true threat to public safety (absent the knowledge that he has an airsoft gun with the orange safety muzzle device removed), and is a felony crime. By contrast, the callers in the above video go out of their way to state that the subject has not menaced anyone with his firearm, and has therefore committed no crime as of yet.

Another point of contrast is that in the Rice case, both officers claim that the youngster reached for the "weapon" when ordered through the open window of the responding police car to show his hands, and again as they dismounted their vehicle. The fact that he was shot within two seconds of police arrival was controlled by Rice, not by the officers. If their account of events is accurate, they did exactly what they were trained to do.

The police in the video are not showing "deference" to a white man, they are simply behaving in line with their training because the subject has not yet committed a crime upon their arrival. Had they used deadly force immediately against him, I have no doubt that the same critics of the police would characterize them as having "killed a senior citizen for jaywalking".

I personally would have handled a black man with a rifle over his shoulder, who obviously was experiencing some emotional issues but had not yet endangered anyone in the same way. But rest assured that black or white, I would have approached him with my own weapon in hand, and had he reached for that rifle in an aggressive manner, I'd have killed him in a split second. His race simply would not have factored into my thinking at all.

I grieve for Tamir Rice, and for his family. I'm just sorry that he was so poorly supervised that he was out in public with something that looked very much like a real gun, pointing it at people, and that at his age, he did not yet have the sound judgment to drop it on the approach of police or simply put up his hands.

So you may well be right that police are quicker to use force on non-compliant black people than white, but I don't think these two cases show that fairly. In addition, and it may have just been a product of where I did police work, I admit, but I ran into a much higher percentage of non-compliant black males than white ones. It was almost as if it were a badge of honor for many of them to refuse to show me their ID, or show their hands when legally required to do so. Did I really want to have to compel that, or arrest them? Of course not.

Maybe we should look at, in the spirit of reducing risk to both sides, police and citizen, doing some education for the public about WHY a police officer at a traffic stop wants your ID before he does anything else, or why he tells you to take your hands out of your pockets. Each of these things has a specific reason in our training and is not personal. But there is a negative and unvarying response when you do not comply, which never turns out well for either side. This won't eliminate the problems caused by jerks on either side who don't show respect to each other, but perhaps it would help people of good will, police and citizens, from having quite so many problems.

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